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	<title>Comments on: Complaint: An outcome letter</title>
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		<title>By: Dave Murray</title>
		<link>http://monaxle.com/2009/12/11/complaint-an-outcome-letter/comment-page-1/#comment-3270</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Murray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 20:59:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://monaxle.com/?p=1714#comment-3270</guid>
		<description>It is always interesting to note that the police take more than 6 months to investigate these complaints. I can only assume that this is so that, if the officers involved are found to have carried out an unlawful arrest, you are prevented by the Magistrates Courts rules from bringing a summary prosecution. Such a summons has to be issued within 6 months.  This is what happened to me when I was attacked and assaulted by a primary school teacher who had seen me using a camera in my village, some way from the school. When &#124; complained to Derbyshire County Council about this young man (I am 58 and disabled) they used the excuse: &#039;Stuart White acted as he perceived a risk of harm to the children inside the school building.&#039; When I asked DCC to explain the nature of this &#039;perceived risk of harm&#039; they informed me that they considered the matter to be closed as they had already done everything that they could to assist me! (just a reminder that we photographers were suspected paedophiles before we were suspected terrorists)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is always interesting to note that the police take more than 6 months to investigate these complaints. I can only assume that this is so that, if the officers involved are found to have carried out an unlawful arrest, you are prevented by the Magistrates Courts rules from bringing a summary prosecution. Such a summons has to be issued within 6 months.  This is what happened to me when I was attacked and assaulted by a primary school teacher who had seen me using a camera in my village, some way from the school. When | complained to Derbyshire County Council about this young man (I am 58 and disabled) they used the excuse: &#8216;Stuart White acted as he perceived a risk of harm to the children inside the school building.&#8217; When I asked DCC to explain the nature of this &#8216;perceived risk of harm&#8217; they informed me that they considered the matter to be closed as they had already done everything that they could to assist me! (just a reminder that we photographers were suspected paedophiles before we were suspected terrorists)</p>
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		<title>By: Stop and search against human rights, says European Court &#124; Alan W Collins</title>
		<link>http://monaxle.com/2009/12/11/complaint-an-outcome-letter/comment-page-1/#comment-3265</link>
		<dc:creator>Stop and search against human rights, says European Court &#124; Alan W Collins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 01:59:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://monaxle.com/?p=1714#comment-3265</guid>
		<description>[...] Turner&#8217;s case, he had already received confirmation that &#8220;complaints relating to unlawful and unnecessary arrest and detention have been recorded [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Turner&#8217;s case, he had already received confirmation that &#8220;complaints relating to unlawful and unnecessary arrest and detention have been recorded [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Catkins</title>
		<link>http://monaxle.com/2009/12/11/complaint-an-outcome-letter/comment-page-1/#comment-3252</link>
		<dc:creator>Catkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jan 2010 13:26:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://monaxle.com/?p=1714#comment-3252</guid>
		<description>Dominic Lawson has jumped to your denfence in the Independent.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/dominic-lawson/dominic-lawson-if-we-are-all-under-suspicion-then-we-are-all-threatened-1857777.html

&quot;Thus, last year, police officers must presumably have thought they had reason to suspect that Alex Turner, taking pictures of a fish and chip shop in Chatham called Mick&#039;s Plaice, was in fact a terrorist. Chatham no longer has its dockyard, or indeed any army barracks... but that didn&#039;t stop two officers from stopping him taking his fishy snaps; and when Mr Turner – quite rightly, in my view – questioned their authority to stop him, he was arrested, held handcuffed in a police van, searched. and interviewed by two plain-clothes officers.

This is the most unpleasant aspect of such encounters, as most of us will intuitively realise: if the innocent citizen reacts with the outrage of the genuinely guiltless, the officers involved may well take a special pleasure in humiliating him – and it is this which makes most people meekly accept official behaviour, even if they might strongly suspect it is the police who are behaving illegally. &quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dominic Lawson has jumped to your denfence in the Independent.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/dominic-lawson/dominic-lawson-if-we-are-all-under-suspicion-then-we-are-all-threatened-1857777.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/dominic-lawson/dominic-lawson-if-we-are-all-under-suspicion-then-we-are-all-threatened-1857777.html</a></p>
<p>&#8220;Thus, last year, police officers must presumably have thought they had reason to suspect that Alex Turner, taking pictures of a fish and chip shop in Chatham called Mick&#8217;s Plaice, was in fact a terrorist. Chatham no longer has its dockyard, or indeed any army barracks&#8230; but that didn&#8217;t stop two officers from stopping him taking his fishy snaps; and when Mr Turner – quite rightly, in my view – questioned their authority to stop him, he was arrested, held handcuffed in a police van, searched. and interviewed by two plain-clothes officers.</p>
<p>This is the most unpleasant aspect of such encounters, as most of us will intuitively realise: if the innocent citizen reacts with the outrage of the genuinely guiltless, the officers involved may well take a special pleasure in humiliating him – and it is this which makes most people meekly accept official behaviour, even if they might strongly suspect it is the police who are behaving illegally. &#8220;</p>
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		<title>By: We11ington</title>
		<link>http://monaxle.com/2009/12/11/complaint-an-outcome-letter/comment-page-1/#comment-3196</link>
		<dc:creator>We11ington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 00:33:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://monaxle.com/?p=1714#comment-3196</guid>
		<description>Throughout the whole process and the video I have seen it seems you have acted with calm restraint at extreme provocation. As for the dopey WPC that arrested you I would be expecting her  to resign very shortly before she is sacked... If I was her commanding officer she would be working in the office on the tea run ( she&#039;d probably mess that up too !). It seems its not over yet and I really hope that you are awarded financial compensation so you can by yourself a new camera! In addition I&#039;d like to see the WPC send you a hand written apology instead of leaving it to the inspector. I,m right behind you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Throughout the whole process and the video I have seen it seems you have acted with calm restraint at extreme provocation. As for the dopey WPC that arrested you I would be expecting her  to resign very shortly before she is sacked&#8230; If I was her commanding officer she would be working in the office on the tea run ( she&#8217;d probably mess that up too !). It seems its not over yet and I really hope that you are awarded financial compensation so you can by yourself a new camera! In addition I&#8217;d like to see the WPC send you a hand written apology instead of leaving it to the inspector. I,m right behind you.</p>
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		<title>By: Catkins</title>
		<link>http://monaxle.com/2009/12/11/complaint-an-outcome-letter/comment-page-1/#comment-3180</link>
		<dc:creator>Catkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 14:53:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://monaxle.com/?p=1714#comment-3180</guid>
		<description>Well if one of your complaints was rejected as the police were flat-out lying, then certainly appeal. I wonder whether there was any CCTV evidence in the area, or any witnesses….

Probably the most important issue has not been addressed, namely what is to be done to expunge your police record. As the arrest was unlawful, can your record be wiped, so you can enter the US on the visa waiver scheme, not have a PNC record, and be able to apply for an enhanced CRB check safe in the knowledge that you’re not listed as a dangerous terrorist. 

Can you obtain a copy of the advice from the police’s legal counsel?

The issue of compensation has also not been discussed. 


So the outcome is that the arresting officer will receive management training and was not acting in malice. 
What exactly is management action and is it the non-punishment it appears to be? The assertion that the officer was not acting maliciously seems to directly contradict the findings of the investigating officer who said that you were arrested ‘because they could’. One thing that sticks out throughout the report is that the Terrorism Act was misused again and again and again throughout the encounter because you failed the ‘attitude test’. 

I believe you can appeal against the lack of sanction applied against the officer as well as the outcome of the investigation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well if one of your complaints was rejected as the police were flat-out lying, then certainly appeal. I wonder whether there was any CCTV evidence in the area, or any witnesses….</p>
<p>Probably the most important issue has not been addressed, namely what is to be done to expunge your police record. As the arrest was unlawful, can your record be wiped, so you can enter the US on the visa waiver scheme, not have a PNC record, and be able to apply for an enhanced CRB check safe in the knowledge that you’re not listed as a dangerous terrorist. </p>
<p>Can you obtain a copy of the advice from the police’s legal counsel?</p>
<p>The issue of compensation has also not been discussed. </p>
<p>So the outcome is that the arresting officer will receive management training and was not acting in malice.<br />
What exactly is management action and is it the non-punishment it appears to be? The assertion that the officer was not acting maliciously seems to directly contradict the findings of the investigating officer who said that you were arrested ‘because they could’. One thing that sticks out throughout the report is that the Terrorism Act was misused again and again and again throughout the encounter because you failed the ‘attitude test’. </p>
<p>I believe you can appeal against the lack of sanction applied against the officer as well as the outcome of the investigation.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://monaxle.com/2009/12/11/complaint-an-outcome-letter/comment-page-1/#comment-3172</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 00:01:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://monaxle.com/?p=1714#comment-3172</guid>
		<description>This has also just turned up. Video seems genuine about yet another plastic plod with a severe attitude and manners problem (note the disgusting gum chewing) but the other accusations re. being &quot;beaten&quot;, rough handling, bruising and a fine need to be looked at. The &quot;fine&quot; details are sketchy. Fined for what and by whom? Was she (the videographer) detained and for what reason? The vid. has some irritating music and some &quot;arty&quot; inserts, which I think should have been left out for clarity. The outcome has been rather left in the air. 
http://www.boingboing.net/2009/12/15/photographer-beaten.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This has also just turned up. Video seems genuine about yet another plastic plod with a severe attitude and manners problem (note the disgusting gum chewing) but the other accusations re. being &#8220;beaten&#8221;, rough handling, bruising and a fine need to be looked at. The &#8220;fine&#8221; details are sketchy. Fined for what and by whom? Was she (the videographer) detained and for what reason? The vid. has some irritating music and some &#8220;arty&#8221; inserts, which I think should have been left out for clarity. The outcome has been rather left in the air.<br />
<a href="http://www.boingboing.net/2009/12/15/photographer-beaten.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.boingboing.net/2009/12/15/photographer-beaten.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Pete</title>
		<link>http://monaxle.com/2009/12/11/complaint-an-outcome-letter/comment-page-1/#comment-3168</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 15:07:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://monaxle.com/?p=1714#comment-3168</guid>
		<description>Glad to see they&#039;ve finally coughed, but it&#039;s a shame that they&#039;re not going to do a damn thing about it. 

I was particularly irked at section 5.4 where PC Hopeless felt that she had to &quot;resolve the matter&quot;. Key thing is, the matter was already resolved - you&#039;d explained what you were doing, so end of. 

The fact that she felt that you hadn&#039;t been sufficiently compliant to fulfil her authoritarian tendencies is her problem, not yours, so well done for (a) standing up for your rights and (b) pushing through a formal complaint.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glad to see they&#8217;ve finally coughed, but it&#8217;s a shame that they&#8217;re not going to do a damn thing about it. </p>
<p>I was particularly irked at section 5.4 where PC Hopeless felt that she had to &#8220;resolve the matter&#8221;. Key thing is, the matter was already resolved &#8211; you&#8217;d explained what you were doing, so end of. </p>
<p>The fact that she felt that you hadn&#8217;t been sufficiently compliant to fulfil her authoritarian tendencies is her problem, not yours, so well done for (a) standing up for your rights and (b) pushing through a formal complaint.</p>
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		<title>By: Retro Post #7: Section 44 Photo Walk &#171; Medway Eyes</title>
		<link>http://monaxle.com/2009/12/11/complaint-an-outcome-letter/comment-page-1/#comment-3153</link>
		<dc:creator>Retro Post #7: Section 44 Photo Walk &#171; Medway Eyes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 16:43:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://monaxle.com/?p=1714#comment-3153</guid>
		<description>[...] You can follow the details of Monaxle&#8217;s case on his blog. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] You can follow the details of Monaxle&#8217;s case on his blog. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: monaxle</title>
		<link>http://monaxle.com/2009/12/11/complaint-an-outcome-letter/comment-page-1/#comment-3150</link>
		<dc:creator>monaxle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 17:29:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://monaxle.com/?p=1714#comment-3150</guid>
		<description>@ Steve - It seems the logic is that my because I was already under arrest and detained then the manner in which I was subsequently treated i.e. questioned and searched falls within the principles of what used to be called double jeopardy. 

@ Hg - your analogies and extrapolations make me laugh. Thank you. 

@ Mark W - I suppose they subscribe to the belief that if you fling enough mud after a while it starts to stick. 

@ Andrew Day - Points well made. Thank you. As for the grammatical error; there was me thinking she was being honest! 

@ Dave - the strategy of FUD is alive and well. 

nickJ - certainly not by default. I wonder if they could be prosecuted for anything. You think because they acted unlawfully a criminal offense was committed which could be prosecuted by law? I suppose I would have to bring a private prosecution against them if I wanted to test that. 

@ Dave regarding the council officers; I was wondering what they would have done with my ID if I&#039;d of given it to them. Do you think they have been given access to run checks on the Police National Data Base? 

@ Reavesy - You have articulated the motivation behind my actions exactly. It was simple - tell me under what legislation I am required to produce my ID and I will. I think it&#039;s reasonable to expect an answer to that. They refused to cooperate with my request. I should have placed them under citizens arrest for being obstructive and harassing me!  

@ Adrian - Sloppy policing is one thing. Sloppy legislation is another. The politicization of the police force and a government kowtowing to big business is what&#039;s really scary. 

@ Richard - The PC&#039;s account of his actions (point 3.4 and 5.9) are lies. I was handcuffed and locked up when asked to provide ID. I pointed out that with my hands cuffed behind my back I couldn&#039;t have done so even if I wanted. I was still handcuffed when I was searched. I asked to be uncuffed but the request was refused because I was &#039;...still under arrest&#039;. It did take him a few seconds to think that through. My wallet was removed from an inside jacket pocket by the PC while I was handcuffed. Whilst I was handcuffed I was asked to remove my shoes. I removed each shoe whilst I was cuffed by prised each one off at the heel with the toe end of the other foot. So technically he did not remove my shoes but in my view being asked to do something like that under the circumstances I was in is the same as having my shoes removed. The PC is a liar. 

@ Peter - To be fair the council people never threatened me with arrest. They simply said that they would call the police if I refused to cooperate and provide them with some ID. See my second response to Dave. What would / could they have done with it even if I chose to give them any?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Steve &#8211; It seems the logic is that my because I was already under arrest and detained then the manner in which I was subsequently treated i.e. questioned and searched falls within the principles of what used to be called double jeopardy. </p>
<p>@ Hg &#8211; your analogies and extrapolations make me laugh. Thank you. </p>
<p>@ Mark W &#8211; I suppose they subscribe to the belief that if you fling enough mud after a while it starts to stick. </p>
<p>@ Andrew Day &#8211; Points well made. Thank you. As for the grammatical error; there was me thinking she was being honest! </p>
<p>@ Dave &#8211; the strategy of FUD is alive and well. </p>
<p>nickJ &#8211; certainly not by default. I wonder if they could be prosecuted for anything. You think because they acted unlawfully a criminal offense was committed which could be prosecuted by law? I suppose I would have to bring a private prosecution against them if I wanted to test that. </p>
<p>@ Dave regarding the council officers; I was wondering what they would have done with my ID if I&#8217;d of given it to them. Do you think they have been given access to run checks on the Police National Data Base? </p>
<p>@ Reavesy &#8211; You have articulated the motivation behind my actions exactly. It was simple &#8211; tell me under what legislation I am required to produce my ID and I will. I think it&#8217;s reasonable to expect an answer to that. They refused to cooperate with my request. I should have placed them under citizens arrest for being obstructive and harassing me!  </p>
<p>@ Adrian &#8211; Sloppy policing is one thing. Sloppy legislation is another. The politicization of the police force and a government kowtowing to big business is what&#8217;s really scary. </p>
<p>@ Richard &#8211; The PC&#8217;s account of his actions (point 3.4 and 5.9) are lies. I was handcuffed and locked up when asked to provide ID. I pointed out that with my hands cuffed behind my back I couldn&#8217;t have done so even if I wanted. I was still handcuffed when I was searched. I asked to be uncuffed but the request was refused because I was &#8216;&#8230;still under arrest&#8217;. It did take him a few seconds to think that through. My wallet was removed from an inside jacket pocket by the PC while I was handcuffed. Whilst I was handcuffed I was asked to remove my shoes. I removed each shoe whilst I was cuffed by prised each one off at the heel with the toe end of the other foot. So technically he did not remove my shoes but in my view being asked to do something like that under the circumstances I was in is the same as having my shoes removed. The PC is a liar. </p>
<p>@ Peter &#8211; To be fair the council people never threatened me with arrest. They simply said that they would call the police if I refused to cooperate and provide them with some ID. See my second response to Dave. What would / could they have done with it even if I chose to give them any?</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Reeds</title>
		<link>http://monaxle.com/2009/12/11/complaint-an-outcome-letter/comment-page-1/#comment-3149</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Reeds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 16:47:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://monaxle.com/?p=1714#comment-3149</guid>
		<description>I agree with Dave these council officials have some very strange ideas of their own importance and remind me slightly of Walter Mitty type characters. They should certainly be sought out and brought to book. this seems quite sinister if council officials believe that they have powers to stop and threaten members of the public with arrest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Dave these council officials have some very strange ideas of their own importance and remind me slightly of Walter Mitty type characters. They should certainly be sought out and brought to book. this seems quite sinister if council officials believe that they have powers to stop and threaten members of the public with arrest.</p>
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